Gold & Silver Forum - AR Pistol almost done

Page 1 of 2

Show 30 post(s) from this thread on one page

Gold & Silver Forum (http://goldismoney.info/forums/index.php)

- Firearms (http://goldismoney.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=159)

- - AR Pistol almost done (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=425255)

CyberGold

11-18-2009 11:17 PM

AR Pistol almost done

1 Attachment(s)

Just gotta add a magpull dark earth bent trigger guard, ergo grip and some red-dot or sight and then its to the range.
Ended up with a Dane Armory stripped lower, DPMS lower parts kit, gunshow buffer tube, DPMS 11.5" chrome lined bbl.
Total cost as it sits $675

buff01

11-18-2009 11:53 PM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

what's up with that funky bar on the back of all the AR pistols I've ever seen? If that doesn't come off, then I don't see the point in these.

Never owned an AR, so excuse the question if it's stupid.

Mike C

11-19-2009 12:14 AM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

That "bar" is the tube that the buffer spring goes into. The point in making a pistol over a rifle is a pistol allows you to have a shorter barrel, whereas you would need a $200 tax stamp to have that short of a barrel on a rifle. Really, the only difference is a stock.

FWIW, the OP CANNOT put a normal stock on this as that would turn it into a SBR(short barrel riffle), and doing that without the $200 stamp can get you prison time.

Nice pistol BTW!

gangsta99

11-19-2009 07:02 AM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

Now that I finally got my Draco Pistol in I think an AR-15 Pistol will be the next item to purchase.

Looks nice sir.

AG Capone

11-19-2009 08:25 AM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

Does Magpul make those hand guards? They look nice. :ok: Are they M4 length?

CyberGold

11-19-2009 08:39 AM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

Quote:

Originally Posted by AG Capone (Post 2033302)

Does Magpul make those hand guards? They look nice. :ok: Are they M4 length?

Yes and yes. They are the MOE guard.
I am probably going to move the top rail to one side for a laser. and put some kind of reflex sight on top. Would like to afford an ACOG but....

Can't put a forward grip on these either but the big guard comes in handy for resting the front on something. I might eventually put a rail gas block and phantom FH on it as these tend to shoot from the hip better than at arms length. Much handier than an M4 inclose quarters. Total build time once all parts were here... about 2 hours (including ogling). Had no issues getting anything to fit.

CyberGold

11-19-2009 08:49 AM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

Quote:

Originally Posted by buff01 (Post 2033011)

pick the one you like...

1. Kinda like a crane, it counterbalances the heavy front end from shooting your toes off.

2. Tie off to your forearm so you don't lose it and can shoot like a robot by extending your arm (be sure to attach trigger lanyard to shouldermount)

3. That is the recoil system with a spring and buffer weight that pushes the bolt and carrier back into the receiver after the recoil of firing a round has compressed it, and causes the autoloading features along the way, of stripping the next round out of the magazine and feeding it into the chamber for the next shot.... ie the autoloading system.

Without that extension, spring and buffer you would have a single shot gun and none of the above would work.

MISRy

11-19-2009 09:09 AM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

I pick number............ 2 ! :getdown:

What do I win?

Well done BTW.

TripKidd

11-19-2009 09:13 AM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberGold (Post 2033333)

pick the one you like...

3. That is the recoil system with a spring and buffer weight that pushes the bolt and carrier back into the receiver after the recoil of firing a round has compressed it, and causes the autoloading features along the way, of stripping the next round out of the magazine and feeding it into the chamber for the next shot.... ie the autoloading system.

Without that extension, spring and buffer you would have a single shot gun and none of the above would work.

Well, there are ways around that.

http://ar15websites.com/images/syste...-21-06-042.jpg

http://www.impactguns.com/store/medi...tol-Beauty.jpg

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/9167/oa93fulluy9.jpg
:cooler:

meatman

11-19-2009 09:42 AM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

And once you finally get the pistol done
you will look at it a decide its absolutely good
for nothing.

How do I know that Have built 3 of them

But the AR pistol still will not be as useless as a DE .50
had one of those to

the best buffer for a AR pistol is from ACE

http://riflestocks.com/catalog/produ...roducts_id=187

.

TripKidd

11-19-2009 10:20 AM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

Quote:

Originally Posted by meatman (Post 2033426)

And once you finally get the pistol done
you will look at it a decide its absolutely good
for nothing.

People say that about my AK pistol... but I tell ya its good for having a blast and confusing the other range patrons!

S_Goldberg

11-19-2009 01:54 PM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

Quote:

what's up with that funky bar

Basically it is a result of the silly design Eugene Stoner came up with.

Nice AR. I like the color scheme.

TTAZZMAN

11-19-2009 03:13 PM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

really like the color scheme also :ok:

electric-amish

11-19-2009 06:51 PM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

Good looking colors.

I can only think of it as a Car tool. Its could help disarm another vechicle in a Mad Max style disagreement.

Its also good for selling to people with the pistol handle 12 Guages.:biggrin:

I actually am impressed with your skill. It looks great!

E-A

H8T fiat

11-19-2009 07:08 PM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

Quote:

Originally Posted by electric-amish (Post 2034437)

Its also good for selling to people with the pistol handle 12 Guages.:biggrin:

E-A

Anything with a pistol grip that is not a pistol looks weird.....unless it also has a stock. No offense to op . I 'd take what he's done and turn it into a Commando. Nice looking front end .

CyberGold

11-20-2009 08:16 AM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

Thanks for the comments
Your probably right MM, not veryuseful except for a range toy, but then since you did it 3 times there must be some attraction. Since I shoot right handed and also ride motorcycle, it is my handicap gun for having to shoot zombies left handed over the windshield :23_30_104:

Their usefulness is probably why there are so many for sale on the boards- shot once... or turned into SBR's eventually.

I like the Oly bob tails but they are too hard to find. The keltec is also cool but not a kit to build at home.

tulsamal

11-20-2009 08:43 PM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

Quote:

People say that about my AK pistol... but I tell ya its good for having a blast and confusing the other range patrons!

Yep, my AMD65 AK pistol is a real hoot to shoot. You start out with a 30 round mag in place and somehow you just can't stop shooting until it is empty. Same thing happens with anybody I let shoot it. Surprisingly accurate. I use a bungee cord type of sling. Pull it out and hold it basically the way you would hold the same gun if it had a stock. That lets the sights be "right" as well. Then start shooting. I've turned all the big rocks down by my bottom pond into gravel with that gun!

I don't have an AR pistol but I'll do it one of these days.

Considering the board we are on, I'll tell you one very good reason to own an AR pistol. Because then you have a legal reason to own AR uppers with short barrels. Say you have three AR-15 rifles. Then you get an AR pistol. It is a 10.5" upper in 5.56mm. You get another upper in 6.8 SPC. (A round that actually handles the short barrel better anyway.) Maybe another one in 5.56mm in a slighter different configuration. All legal to own because you own the pistol. So those uppers are all for that pistol. Never keep one of those uppers in the same case with one of the rifles or anything like that. For sure, don't ever put one of the short ones on a rifle. (OK, once, in your locked bedroom just to check it out. Now take it back off!)

If the day ever comes and it really is TEOTWAWKI, you've got extra shorty uppers for your AR's all set up and ready to roll. If it is something like "One Second After," there is no government anymore and nobody cares what is or isn't legal. They just want to survive. Your AR's are now much handier to carry in and out of vehicles and buildings. And you've still got the longer barreled uppers for a situation where you want greater range.

In the meantime...... they are fun!

Gregg

CyberGold

11-21-2009 09:43 AM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

Good analysis Tulasmal. Tell me more about the 6.8 ... is it a necked up 223? will std 223 mags work with it? same follower?

S_Goldberg

11-21-2009 03:05 PM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberGold (Post 2037232)

Good analysis Tulasmal. Tell me more about the 6.8 ... is it a necked up 223? will std 223 mags work with it? same follower?

No. No. and No.

6.8 is its own cartridge and frankly it is dead right now. I wouldn't buy an upper for it, but to each his own.

To get an overview read this.
http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum...ad.php?p=13762

ETA: A search for 6.8 ammo for sale revealed 4 listing on gun-deals.com all of which are priced at $1.04 per round.

Heimdhal

11-21-2009 03:30 PM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_Goldberg (Post 2037635)

Your thoughts on the 6.5? I've heard some pretty amazing things about. I was rolling around the idea of doing an AR build with a 6.5 upper as my next major gun project.

CyberGold

11-21-2009 06:22 PM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

There is a more detailed review there also
http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum...ead.php?t=1598

that give info on avoiding the pitfalls of buying the wrong upper- very comprehensive. I don't think 6.8 is for me but for some it looks like a good alternative. BTW thanks for the link to that site, lots of good info all around.

S_Goldberg

11-21-2009 07:46 PM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heimdhal (Post 2037661)

Your thoughts on the 6.5? I've heard some pretty amazing things about. I was rolling around the idea of doing an AR build with a 6.5 upper as my next major gun project.

Are you equipped to handload? It is really the only practical way to use either of these cartridges. Unless you have a lot of disposable income.

My opinion is this: If you want an AR, go with 5.56. Despite the constant armchair commando flaming on message boards, the 5.56 has a proven reputation and offers a lightweight, high capacity platform that served well for decades. If you have reservations about the 5.56 or the AR platform, go with another option such as the AK, FAL, G3, etc.

The 6.8 has only a slight ballistic advantage over the 7.62x39. At typical engagement distances, there really isn't a difference. Why adopt a hard to obtain caliber when you could simply go with x39 which is readily available and cheap?

Heimdhal

11-21-2009 08:25 PM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_Goldberg (Post 2037982)

Im not equipped nor experienced in handloading. I am familiart with the AR platform in 5.56. I know of its positives and its negatives. A big reason my most recent purchase was an AK. Im kicking the idea around in my head for a small caliber rifle, and just cant decide on the 5.56 or 5.45. Then of course theres the 5.45 on an AR upper.

Im not the biggest fan of the AR, I wont lie. But that doesnt mean its a total trash rifle. I'd kill for an m1a/m14 or FAL, but just isnt in the budget :bear_cry:

Now if the zombies come, Im grabbing my AK for sure!

Stealinator

11-21-2009 08:41 PM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_Goldberg (Post 2037635)

Saw some at the show today , about 5 vendors had it on the rack. Nothing bigger than a 20 round box, but could have picked up 30-40 boxes and average was $20.95-26.50. (saw some stripped ar15 lowers for $109 also) Had limited funds so sucks at present. Still in the debate over building a .308 or 6.8 addition.

tulsamal

11-21-2009 09:24 PM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

Quote:

6.8 is its own cartridge and frankly it is dead right now. I wouldn't buy an upper for it, but to each his own.

Quote:

The 6.8 has only a slight ballistic advantage over the 7.62x39. At typical engagement distances, there really isn't a difference. Why adopt a hard to obtain caliber when you could simply go with x39 which is readily available and cheap?

7.62x39 has a history of not being totally reliable in the AR platform. The cartridge has a taper to it which works great in the AK. But the long straight mag well of the AR limits how much curve the AR mags can have. Some work, some just never do. I would like a 7.62x39 upper just to blast cheap ammo through but it wouldn't be my first choice _at all_ for a serious use gun. The mags have always been an issue with those guns.

And if you compare the trajectories of the typical surplus 7.62x39 to some of the new SPC II stuff, you can't honestly say there is only a "slight" advantage. Can you load the 7.62x39 with an 85 grain Barnes bullet to over 3100 fps out of a 16" barrel? People are doing that every day with the new SPC II chamber.

As far as mags for the 6.8, you can use 5.56mm mags but not loaded to capacity. I wouldn't do it at all since there are lots of super high quality and 100% reliable 6.8 mags out there. I've got some C Products that have worked fine but the real Cadillac of the group are the PRI mags.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/all-68.php

Quote:

Still in the debate over building a .308 or 6.8 addition.

I had a RRA 5.56mm rifle. So then I had my gunsmith build me a 6.8 White Oak upper. Cost a lot less than a whole new rifle. I can quickly and easily switch back and forth between them. The AR-10 7.62 types are fun to shoot at the range but they are larger and you can't just swap an upper to get one. You have to go whole new gun. When it comes to 7.62 NATO, I'm going to stick with the FAL platform.

Gregg

tulsamal

11-21-2009 09:39 PM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

I went to look up some actual numbers.

The standard military 7.62x39 load is a 122-125 grain bullet at 2300-2375 fps.

Compare that to the numbers from this reloading chart for the 6.8 SPC II:

http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=476

90 grain bullet over 3000 fps. Over 2900 without any effort at all.

100 grain bullet over 2700 fps.

110 grain over 2700. (Actually one 110 grain load was 2790 fps.)

If that's a "slight ballistic advantage" then I guess the same thing can be said if you compare the 30-30 to the 308!

The advantage is even greater when you consider actual trajectories since the short little .30 caliber bullet doesn't go far without slowing a lot.

Gregg

SilverCity

11-21-2009 09:42 PM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

How does the 6.8 compare to the new 30 Remington AR?

You Tube

tulsamal

11-21-2009 10:03 PM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

Quote:

How does the 6.8 compare to the new 30 Remington AR?

I don't have a ballistics table for that new round yet. Isn't it supposed to be 308 class? But they were able to do that by going wider. Enlarging the boltface and making the case body much wider. So if you look at the Remington rifle, magazine capacity is much more limited. I don't think you will be able to buy any mags for it with 25-30 round capacity.

It is interesting but it is just a tiny player in the market right now compared to 6.8 SPC. Go check out some big name AR makers and see how many of them are also doing 6.8.

Gregg

SilverCity

11-21-2009 10:30 PM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

Yeah, one of the few areas for AR makers to play with is 6.8, since Alexander Arms has a death grip on the 6.5 Grendel...

S_Goldberg

11-21-2009 11:15 PM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

Quote:

Originally Posted by tulsamal (Post 2038142)

I'm sorry but you are absolutely wrong!

A few years ago, I decided the specs of the 6.5 Grendel were what I wanted. So I quit paying any attention to the 6.8mm SPC. But things have moved on. In the first place, I'm pretty much sick of the way Alexander Arms wants to totally control each and every thing about the 6.5 Grendel. You can't just buy any old AR-15 in the caliber. They control it all and they are serious about it. Whereas a bunch of different companies are making rifles and uppers for 6.8. Many companies are making brass and loaded ammo as well.

That is important but I still thought I liked the ballistics of the 6.5 better. But that has changed as well. Turns out Remington did a crappy job of the initial chamber design. It causes pressure to spike too quickly and so that limits safe loads. But that is all gone now. You buy a new upper with a 6.8 SPC II chamber and go to town. The specs are every bit as good as the Grendel now.

If you really want to see what is going on with the cartridge, just spend one hour on this site. You will change your mind!!

http://68forums.com/forums/index.php

I don't actually know what retail is right now on factory ammo. I don't buy factory ammo for much of anything. But I had no problem buying lots of brass and bullets plus reloading dies. If you are going to buy brass, buy it from SSA rather than Remington. The SSA brass uses the small rifle primer which turns out to be another good idea for the cartridge.

http://www.ssarmory.com/

http://www.ssarmory.com/6.8ammunitionsales.aspx

The reason I specifically mentioned the 6.8 for an AR pistol is that the cartridge performs well in shorter barrels. A bunch of guys have SBR'ed their uppers and gotten really excellent performance.

7.62x39 has a history of not being totally reliable in the AR platform. The cartridge has a taper to it which works great in the AK. But the long straight mag well of the AR limits how much curve the AR mags can have. Some work, some just never do. I would like a 7.62x39 upper just to blast cheap ammo through but it wouldn't be my first choice _at all_ for a serious use gun. The mags have always been an issue with those guns.

And if you compare the trajectories of the typical surplus 7.62x39 to some of the new SPC II stuff, you can't honestly say there is only a "slight" advantage. Can you load the 7.62x39 with an 85 grain Barnes bullet to over 3100 fps out of a 16" barrel? People are doing that every day with the new SPC II chamber.

As far as mags for the 6.8, you can use 5.56mm mags but not loaded to capacity. I wouldn't do it at all since there are lots of super high quality and 100% reliable 6.8 mags out there. I've got some C Products that have worked fine but the real Cadillac of the group are the PRI mags.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/all-68.php

I had a RRA 5.56mm rifle. So then I had my gunsmith build me a 6.8 White Oak upper. Cost a lot less than a whole new rifle. I can quickly and easily switch back and forth between them. The AR-10 7.62 types are fun to shoot at the range but they are larger and you can't just swap an upper to get one. You have to go whole new gun. When it comes to 7.62 NATO, I'm going to stick with the FAL platform.

Gregg

Look, you can like the cartridge. That is fine. It does not make it any less dead. A forum devoted to it means nothing. The cartridge has not been adopted by any governmental agency and is not likely to be in the near future. Its original intent was for military adoption. That failed, ergo it is dead.

Moving on to x39 vs 6.8SPC
First, trajectory is meaningless. This a battle rifle, not a sniper rifle. If you don't know the difference, talk to somebody with military experience.

Secondly, Handloads don't count. We are talking about off the shelf standard loads.

The standard load for the 6.8 is a 115gr bullet at 2500fps yielding 1700 ft-lbs of energy. The standard 762x39 loading is a 122gr bullet at 2300fps yielding 1500 ft-lbs of energy. At 200 yards we have

6.8SPC - 2300fps 1300 ft-lbs of energy
7.62x39 - 1800 fps 900 ft-lbs of energy

The advantage is clearly with the 6.8 and it is pretty sizable. However, this difference is not so significant when you see what a full power cartridge such as the 7.62 NATO performs. Before you say "well at 400 yards the numbers are this...", have you ever tried to engage man sized targets at 400yds? No benchrest bullshit, field positions, popup man sized targets. It isn't very easy to do with a 16" barreled carbine. Both cartridges offer a 100+ grain projectile with ~1000ft-lbs of energy. That is solid man-stopper performance.

I am not saying that the 6.8 SPC is a bad cartridge, just that it is not readily available and does not offer anything that can not be found in other cartridges that enjoy popularity.

Based on Heimdhal's previous AK thread, he indicated he has a budget for toys. I was simply explaining that switching to this caliber would not offer anything he doesn't already have in his Kalashnikov and would turn into a costly hobby. I am glad you like the cartridge. If you own one great. I hope you love it.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:38 AM.

Page 1 of 2

Show 30 post(s) from this thread on one page

Gold & Silver Forum - AR Pistol almost done

Page 2 of 2

Show 30 post(s) from this thread on one page

Gold & Silver Forum (http://goldismoney.info/forums/index.php)

- Firearms (http://goldismoney.info/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=159)

- - AR Pistol almost done (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=425255)

S_Goldberg

11-21-2009 11:17 PM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverCity (Post 2038166)

How does the 6.8 compare to the new 30 Remington AR?

30 Rem. AR is 2800fps and 122 or 125gr bullets depending on the load.

CyberGold

11-22-2009 07:40 PM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

Well I have to admit, if SHTF for real, I'm reaching for one of my FAL's or Rem SPS-Tac. The AR & AK are ok for defending the bunker and out to a couple hundred yards give or take but only after I have run out of 308 & 300 WMag ammo.

Big Country

12-03-2009 08:38 AM

Re: AR Pistol almost done

Looks good! I like the coyote tan furniture rather then just black. Looks good on that piece!

If anyone is interested in building their own I have a like new 11.5" upper for sale in the buy&sell right now for cheaper then a brand new one!

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:38 AM.

Page 2 of 2

Show 30 post(s) from this thread on one page